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The End of Immigration


Found this on Drudge... British Muslims were polled about their feelings toward the bombers/bombings. Most condemned them...

However, six per cent insist that the bombings were, on the contrary, fully justified.

Six per cent may seem a small proportion but in absolute numbers it amounts to about 100,000 individuals who, if not prepared to carry out terrorist acts, are ready to support those who do. [Emphasis mine.]

Moreover, the proportion of YouGov's respondents who, while not condoning the London attacks, have some sympathy with the feelings and motives of those who carried them out is considerably larger - 24 per cent.

A substantial majority, 56 per cent, say that, whether or not they sympathise with the bombers, they can at least understand why some people might want to behave in this way.

It's increasingly hard to make an argument that this is not an an issue with Islam itself. Will Muslims be welcome to emigrate into western countries? Not when there are polling results like these. If this keeps up, there's going to be serious problems for the Muslim community - and it's theirs to fix.

ETC: Good news - Muslims protesting terror. More of this please.


Tags: terrorism
by Brett Rogers, 7/23/2005 8:24:04 AM


Okay, if you surveyed the Christian Community in the United States, I'd bet you'd get the same kind of percentages that backed up bombing Planned Parenthood. Or....I bars. The very fact that we are targeting such polls toward the Muslim community is like saying, "Hey, you're a Mormon, do you back polygamy?" What do you say if you are a good Mormon, even if you think it's wrong. It's loaded and inherantly biased...and frankly, not doing a lot for the voice of reason when it comes to freedom of religion. Drudge would appear to be part of the problem rather than part of the solution.

Also, understanding why someone would behave any particular way does not mean you condone it. I understand why sex offenders offend. That doesn't mean I condone or would do it.

And this is probably neither here nor there, but I thought of it yesterday and wanted to throw it out there. When Jonestown happened, the blame went to Jim Jones, not Jesus Christ or Christianity. Same with David Koresh and Waco. Yet all I hear is "the bombers are doing it for Islam, that's insane." It's incorrect. They are doing it for a mutated view of Islam, created by hateful human beings.



Posted by Bella, 7/23/2005 12:23:16 PM

There was a time when Christian murderers targeted abortion clinics/workers, and while I'm sure that it was cheered in some parts of the Christian community, that same Christian community cleaned up its mess and we don't hear of that much any more. As it should be; it was horribly wrong.

Likewise, Muslims have a mess to clean up, and it ain't gonna get cleaned up with 56% empathisizing with the murderers, and - more scarily - with 6% ready to support those who murder.

Nobody supported Jim Jones or sympathized with him. Nobody supported David Koresh. And what's more, those wackos killed themselves and their own people. If only these terrorist lunatics would do that, the war on terror could be over tomorrow. Can I get a hallelujah?

Yes, the bombers are doing it for Islam. Really - have you read why Mohammed Bouyeri killed filmmaker Theo Van Gogh?

I did what I did purely out of my beliefs. I want you to know that I acted out of conviction.

All because Van Gogh made a documentary about the treatment of Muslim women, which Bouyeri saw as an insult to Allah and the prophet, Muhammed.

If that view is a mutated view of Islam, then the 6% of British Muslims need to be corrected by the other 94% and fast. They're not going to listen to us infidels about it; only to a Muslim who can correct them straight from the Quran.

This is their problem to fix, or I guarantee that prejudice - whether rational or irrational - will become deep-seated and reactionary and reflected in public policy.



Posted by Brett Rogers (, 7/23/2005 5:09:49 PM

"That same Christian community cleaned up its mess and we don't hear of that much any more." Whatever. The legal community has had to clean up those messes.

Jones killed children (indirectly) who didn't really have a choice in the matter, so he didn't just kill his own people. And didn't we lose a couple of ATF folks at Waco? Honestly, I can't remember. You say nobody supported David Koresh. Did anybody ask? That was the crux of my point. There were probably plenty of Christian fundamentalists that thought he was plenty justified. But nobody thought to ask because Christianity is familiar and safe in the minds of the West.

I have to paste a bit of the article you linked to refer to:

"Six per cent may seem a small proportion but in absolute numbers it amounts to about 100,000 individuals who, if not prepared to carry out terrorist acts, are ready to support those who do."

Really??!! I find it a big leap from telling a news pollster that you believe someone is justified in doing something, to saying that you are "prepared to carry out" an act or ready to support (presumably financially) those who do....especially when you are just asking Joe Muslim-guy on the street. It's a lot of conjecture on a topic that can only be exacerbated by it.

And yes, I have read about, and seen the Van Gogh film. And I don't doubt that his assassin acted on his convictions...but again, his beliefs are a mutated version of Islam. And realistically, who doesn't kill based on their beliefs and convictions? The whole thing is much more complicated than religion and statements like "it's increasingly hard to make an argument that this is not an an issue with Islam itself" strike me as oversimplifying the issue....not to mention a little more intolerant than I believe you to be. Yes, the extreme version of Islam may be the terrorists belief, but that mutation stems from a lot of other factors personal, political and economic. Those convictions are formed because of a lot more than Mohammed.

So....overall, y'know, people just suck. Islamic people. Christian people. Hindu people. Buddhist people. We're all mean, and we all think we're right and noble and just. Seems to me, after reading the article you linked to, it did exactly what it was designed to do: scare the crap out of non-Muslims.

Besides, Drudge is a jerk.

Also, practice what you preach, would you? :-) One line, and just an ETC. at that, on Muslims protesting violence. So much for Mr. Where's the Good News? Apparently it's buried at the bottom of a post.



Posted by Bella, 7/24/2005 6:48:20 PM

Bella, I'm mighty damn pissed that innocent civilians have to suffer the terminal consequences of some of Islam's shitty followers. I'm outraged that my fellow Americans have to go to the Middle East and spend an inordinate time away from their families and put their lives on the line because the Saudis and the Iranians and Saddam and Yassar and lord knows how many others have supported terrorists in the past. It's utter bullshit and I'm tired of it.

9/11 and Madrid and London and Indonesia and every place else didn't happen because we asked for it, and it didn't happen because we're intolerant, and it didn't happen because of George Bush, and it didn't happen because these terrorists are poverty-stricken or anything else. It happened because Islam has some shitty followers in its midst.

The great tragedy in this is that you folks on the left have way more passion to shout "Not in our name!" at our retaliatory strike than the Muslim community has angst about the huge mass murders is committed in the name of Allah. That's bullshit. Is Islam getting a bad rap? Great - then they should stand up by the thousands and rebuke these bastards frequently and publicly. I'm well aware that most Muslims don't buy into the hatred, but if so, then they better get busy about it or their silence brands them as much as the murder committed in the name of their religion.

I'm pissed at the media because they trumpet these murderers every chance that they get. It's irresponsible. So I'm overjoyed that their readership dwindles - they deserve that. I hope it continues until they're all out of a job or until they work to help the country in which they enjoy their freedom.

I am intolerant. I'm intolerant of murderers who strap bombs to their bodies and then run into a crowd. I'm intolerant of people who remain silent about it, or worse, when people actually believe that the US is the great evil because it seeks to protect its own. Too damn bad. If people hate the US for its actions and they live here, they should move.

Had Saddam listened to the UN in its 17 declarations, we wouldn't have gone in. If the Muslim community imprisoned these hate-filled teachers instead of rewarding them with money to sponsor their activity, this wouldn't be happening.

Christians aren't performing these acts. And I'm not a Christian, but I got two eyes, and Bella, it ain't Christians. Show me the last Christian who ran into a crowded marketplace and blew up people shopping for grapefruit in the name of Jesus and I'll lambaste the Christians for their silence too.

Here on my blog, I'll vent once in a while. This happens to be my week to get really pissed that Muslims are either mostly silent or that the media doesn't cover the anti-terror protests as much as they should.

And the last time that I gave a full topic to pat the media on the back for what I perceived to be good news, you ranted at me for quite a while. Pardon my ETC... which is my style with later thoughts or notations. You know, if my blog gives you stomach monkeys and makes you raise your fist and shout, then there is probably little I can do to satisfy you. But it's what it is.

As for people, I think most people want to do the right thing. I'm all in favor of doing everything I can to support their efforts, and when I think that they're moving in the right direction, I'll send kudos, and when they're not, I'll object - and sometimes loudly. In my opinion, the Muslim community is getting tarred by the scum in their midst. If they're okay with it, who am I to refuse them? So be it. But there will be no whining about the repercussions from their inaction later. Personally, I hope they don't sit on their hands.



Posted by Brett Rogers (, 7/24/2005 7:49:46 PM


You tell her sister!



Posted by Anonymous, 7/25/2005 10:12:46 AM

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